Half of Clergy Members View Porn Each Month

I've notice some problems in regard to the leadership/purity issue: 1) most who go through America's seminaries aren't qualified to be elders. Seminary does not make a man qualified; if he is not already fulfillinging ALL the biblical requirments ("must" and "must not" in Titus 1 and 1Tim. 3), then he cannot be a pastor. 2) men too young are being given positions of leadership without the wisdom of older men, having been infected by liberal thinking. 3) Those in the surveys/polls tend to include anyone who claims to be a "Christian" which inevitably will include unbelievers who have no fruit of Self-Control nor the aid of the Person and work of the Holy Spirit. How many of these "pastors" also deny the infalliblity of Scripture and hold to the Triunity of God, for instance? In other words, are they even truly Christians? 4) How can churches deal with their sinning leadership when they slap us down for daring to question, test, and address sinning elders/pastors? Circling the wagons is a big problem in churches today.5) Most see Scripture as a textbook and not as it is: God-breathed ("inspired"), living, active, and perfect, able to equip every man unto good works. 6) Most churches have no church discipline, so they won't have an assembly of believers striving to live holy lives.7) With the likes of Driscoll and Young obssessed with sex talk in the pulpit, is it any wonder their fans do the same?

Dan 2:22 He reveals the deep and secret things; He knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells in Him.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from His sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Getting involved in pornography begins in the heart and with justifying small sins here and there. I pray God keeps us from doing that in all areas as we submit to Him.

One of the challenges of all this discussion is, "Which sins are really sins?". How about if a pastor occasionally "steals" postage stamps? Makes personal long distance calls at church expense? Goofs off on "church time"? Doesn't report ALL income to the IRS? On and on - - ?

In my opinion, porn is just one more example of the fallen nature. I thank God that He has given me "victory" over the vices of porn and alcohol abuse. That doen't mean that I am immune from those challenges in the future - just that I don't currently have to wrestle with them.

I'm not sure how to resolve the issue other than to say, any pastor wrestling with the porn issue needs to actively seek help.

Some other thoughts: Some would recommend a local 12 Step program. For those who cannot or refuse to see God's judgment on the horizon would of course deem "reason to tremble" as a legalistic denial of eternal security. One may not lose salvation, but it is undeniable that sin has immediate and destructive consequences, more so for pastors who are responsible for many. For that reason alone, it would be an insult to God and His justice to claim that there is no reason to tremble while alive or even after death. To deny that sin has ramifications while the sinner still has life, or after death, is the typical response of relativistic Christians who deny the power of God to change lives and to set the captive free. They also deny that holiness or sanctification or the lack thereof has any effect on the ministry of the pastor. Once anointed, always anointed? I don't think so; there is a ton of Biblical evidence that one's anointing can be withdrawn, pending repentance.

"reformed"
I actually agree with your every point in this post. Holiness and the lack thereof has a tremendous effect on the ministry of a pastor. If a pastor is not led by the Spirit of God they will be completly ineffective because it is the Spirit of God living in us that allows us to proclaim the Gospel in the first place. As for the anointing being removed from a leader one only needs to look at the life of King Saul to prove your point. Here was a man annointed by God to lead Israel. He had the Spirit of God upon him and through his disobedience to God by practicing idolitry had his anointing removed.
One of the things that helps me to seek the Lord's santification in my life is the fear of being accountable not only for my life but for the lives of those whom i shepherd. I don't fear my salvation for that is secure but there are still consequences for sin in this life and the next for those who are disobedient to God.
One of the ways in which pastors fail in thier personal and ministry lives is by trying to do things on their own. Pastors need to be accountable to God, their spouses, other pastors and church leaders. Let me interject a note from John Wesley. One of Wesley's biggest contributions to evangelical Christianity was the idea of christian accountability. He held his pastors and his congregants to high moral standards. They were held accountable to each other and to God and would meet regularly to study the Word and to pray and to confess thier struggles to God and each other. This is a lesson most modern Christians have forgotten.
Christ alone is the author of our salvation but He has given us the church (those washes in His blood) in part to mature us in our faith and to help us live holy lives before Him.

Scripture tells us the following:
3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.

8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord.

--Ephesians 5

So if no immoral person has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ, why would we ever say someone is saved when they can't leave porn alone? They're not saved according to this passage. It doesn't get any plainer.

Ingrid

Ingrid I believe this to be an epidemic. A distant relative recommended my husband read an "expose" book on the Christian Right and how SO many are into unsavory porn addictions and worse. (I can't remember the name of the book unfortunately). At first I thought this has to be a very biased account, but after reading your column I wonder...

True, the porn epidemic is sweeping across the nation, affecting more and more women and our pastors as well.

But your commentary doesn't help.

Conquering porn is not just a matter of willpower - there are enough studies out there to confirm that. Porn is often the symptom of a bigger problem. You said that tens of thousands of pastors are doing what is right in their own eyes...I disagree. Tens of thousands of pastors are doing what they know is wrong, what they don't want to do.

So I ask: where's the grace? If viewing porn is "reason to tremble" then we have subscribed to legalism. Is it by grace alone that we are saved or grace and stopping all of the bad stuff we do? It can only be one or the other.

Viewing 'porn is often the symptom of a bigger problem". And what do you think that bigger problem is? I think I know. It is the slippery slope of the seeker-friendly approach to winning to lost by identifying with them in their sin...becoming like them to win them...stumbling into the very same sins they are called to preach against.

Of course conquering porn it is not just a matter of willpower. It is a matter of repentance and turning from that sin with the help of the Holy Spirit. That is grace...but grace is not a license to sin or to continue in habitual sin. The judgment of God is not loss of salvation to the true Christian, but the consequences of that sin...divorce, broken families, broken, disillustioned churches when they discover their pastor preaches one thing and practices another.

Your ideas of grace and legalism are eschewed. So grace to you means we get saved, live like the world, keep right on sinning and it is no big deal...because we are saved by grace not works...therefore...works aren't that important to the Christian life? Anybody who says Christians ought to live holy lives and overcome the sin in their lives...they are legalists, religious pharisees, right? In fact, our sins are not really sins at all....but just 'problems' to be conquered.

"Pastors are doing what they know is wrong, what they don't want to do." Well, then they should pick up the Bible and find out what it teaches so they can stop doing it. Paul wrote about this very issue in Romans 7:24-25: "O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death (sin)? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." We are saved by grace and we overcome sin...stop doing it...by grace. We strive for holy living not in an effort to gain heaven, but out of love and devotion to our Saviour who is now Lord of our lives. Pastors will be held to a stricter account by God because they lead His flock. If a pastor has a porn addiction, that is a form of adultery. He should step down from his pastorate and work on restoring his relationship with God and his wife. He is not fit to preach. That there are so many pastors involved in porn is truly shocking in light of God's standards for elders and preachers given in Titus. Verses 11-15: "For the grace of God that brings salavtion has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we shoud live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the Great God and our Saviour; who gave Him self for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee." We are all called to holy living, but pastors especially.

"And what do you think that bigger problem is? I think I know."

-And it is at that point of assuming what it is that drives addictive behavior that you render yourself without credibility entirely.

"Of course conquering porn it is not just a matter of willpower. It is a matter of repentance and turning from that sin with the help of the Holy Spirit."

-And so far as I can tell both from you and Ingrid this "turning from that sin with the help of the Holy Spirit" means, "Stop doing it." Tell me, how is this on any sort of practical level different from will power?

Understand that I'm not saying the pastor should indulge his every desire under the excuse of grace. Rather, I'm noting that telling those who are waging a battle against their flesh to "Stop it!" is rather unhelpful. They know they need to stop it, they just don't know how.

"Your ideas of grace and legalism are eschewed."

-Actually, you just haven't a clue what I said. Clearly, you read my words and assumed I was saying that grace allows us to continue in sin when, in reality, I was saying that it is grace that saves us, not holy living and because of that, pastors who look at porn do not need "to tremble."

"Anybody who says Christians ought to live holy lives and overcome the sin in their lives...they are legalists, religious pharisees, right?"

-Not at all. But anybody who says that a pastor who has not yet overcome their sin "have reason to tremble"...well, yes, they are legalists, religious pharisees. I'm all for overcoming one's sin, but lets not stake their eternity on it.

"Well, then they should pick up the Bible and find out what it teaches so they can stop doing it."

-If only it were as easy as that. I assume you still find sin in your own life despite the fact that you know what the Bible teaches about it, no? Just remember that with the same measure you use to judge, it will be measured to you also.

"Paul wrote about this..."

-And yet he still struggled. That's your problem: you think that engaging in sin means pastors aren't trying. Why? What makes you think that their continual stumbling is something other than their striving for holiness? Would you characterize Paul who also did what he did not want to do in the same way that you characterize pastors who struggle with porn? Should Paul have stepped down? Is that what being a pastor is all about? Getting cleaned up enough to be used by God?

Ken,
If a pastor has a porn problem he needs to get out of the ministry and deal with it. #2, you claim that my advice to those trapped in porn is to "just stop." If you seriously think that was my comprehensive advice to those addicted to porn, you don't know me very well, and clearly have missed the many times I have recommended groups like Pure Life Ministries that use a biblical approach to setting men free. For you to label me as a legalist based on a couple of paragraphs is unfair and shows your lack of knowledge about what I believe. I will tell you, however, that the power that resurrected Christ from the dead is alive and operating today. Many of those "wrestling" with porn are not regenerate in the first place. It is an insult to the living Lord and His great power over sin, death and hell to continue to fall again and again and never have ultimate victory over this filth. If Christ came to set the captives free from this darkness, and men remain in bondage to sin, there is a problem, Houston.

Ingrid

Ken, I got your latest response and am not going to post it. Your belief that a porn-viewing pastor should be left in the pulpit if he is "accountable to elders" makes me want to launch my lunch. I don't need a porn addict for a pastor. Nobody does and it's a direct violation of Scripture's qualification for church leadership. Your comments are deeply troubling and demonstrate just how sick the current church really is. Your defense of those in ministry who are into porn on a chronic basis raises serious questions in my mind about where you're coming from. This debate is officially over, Ken.

"Ken, I got your latest response and am not going to post it. "

-Eh, I'm not surprised. Such is the benefit of power - you get to silence the opposition.

Ken, please refer to our comment policy. Note that bickering is not tolerated. You were bickering. Your comments didn't get posted. I quote:

"Commenting at the Crosstalk Blog is not a right, it is a privilege. Crosstalk Blog staff reserves the right to reject any comment that is found to be offensive or otherwise unaccaeptable for any reason. We will not tolerate the following: abusive or profane language, objectionable links, off-topic remarks, and bickering with other commenters. Thank you for respecting this policy."

Ingrid, maybe because its January, or maybe because I've had a very trying day homeschooling my four sons in a wicked generation, but this article made me break down and cry. It is almost too much to hear.

I hear Him whisper, "Do not grow weary in well-doing," but I am weary (just for today). And my heart breaks for the sheep, and for mothers younger than myself who are just beginning to raise babies in an age that is so blatantly corrupt.

God help us all. God bless the remnant, and the little ones in the faith.

Amy, I am so with you. I hate even posting this stuff, but sometimes I still would rather know than be in the dark on some of this as far as dangers to our children. I rock my youngest who is 5 months and I just cry sometimes when I look at the twisted state of the world, and more importantly, the ruins of what was once evangelical Christianity. There are so few biblical churches now, that our kids have little Christian context to grow up in outside of family. You feel so alone sometimes. These are spiritually dark times because the city on a hill, the church, has gone dark in many ways. I'm glad like-minded believers can connect online at least. God bless you.